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Announcer: You're listening to the Miles to Go podcast, the go-to source for travel tips, news, and reviews you can't afford to miss. Now here's your host, travel expert, Ed Pizza.

Ed Pizza: Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Miles to Go podcast. I've been out there for a couple of weeks now traveling again. And what I thought was going to be one trip turned into, gosh, three, four trips. And I really started to get the sense that things weren't what I expected them to be. So I took a step back and I figured I got to process this. There's just a lot of different pieces here. And it had been a couple of weeks since we'd had Mr. Kerr on with us. And so who better to try and zero in on what airlines and hotels should be doing now than Richard Kerr. Mr. Kerr, welcome back to the show.

Richard Kerr: Hey, it's only been a couple of weeks. I hope everybody appreciate my new role here as the standing cohost of ... What's this podcast called? It's traveling crosstalk Yeah. Yeah, man. When is it? When are these airlines and hotels going to stop hiding behind the name of COVID? Which might seem like a rash statement at first, because, man, it's been a very serious situation, but it's gotten a little too far now.

Ed Pizza: And I think there's two buckets there. There's certainly the things that are loosely related to sanitation and safety standards. And then there are the things that were never really connected to that. And so some of them I know were cut just from a cost savings standpoint, and some were we'll Hey, we can look at you with a straight face and say that there's a sanitation standard here. And so on the one side you've got, and I'll use two easy examples, and I'm sure we'll get into more detail. But you've got housekeeping and rooms, and are customers comfortable with a housekeeper coming in the room? Can you transmit on a surface? There were lots of questions about that. So it was easy for hotels to back away from daily housekeeping, to some extent.
And then the flip side, there's the other category of, well, we can't really serve a full breakfast because we haven't figured out how to do a buffet safely. But there are some hotels that I visited in the past two weeks, limited service brands, where the part of the brand is offering breakfast. And I came downstairs in the morning and there wasn't even coffee and fruit. And the last time I checked, those are things like single bottle beverages. Things like that, that really have nothing to do with sanitation. It's a single bottle beverage, I can sanitize the outside of the bottle. And people have been doing breakfast bags for a year during the pandemic. And it really got me wondering how much of this is going to come back and win.

Richard Kerr: There was a Hyatt place, right?

Ed Pizza: It was. And then alongside that, you've got the airlines too, which I want to dig into as well, because some meals have started to come back on airplanes. Not that I ever really loved airplane food to be clear, but there's so few restaurants open in airports. And the lines are so long that the ability to buy something on board is almost a requirement for longer flights now, unless you want to get to the airport three hours early. So again, there's this whole element of ... I wonder, because buying the Biome Board really strikes me as the thing that the airlines do make money off of. So why don't they want to sell me a $7 can of Pringles right now?

Richard Kerr: Yeah. You had, what, for your Transcon flight on Delta first class? As many almonds as you wanted. Was that the breadth of the menu?

Ed Pizza: There were also two packs of Biscoff cookies, too. I could choose either one. That was Atlanta crosstalk to Las Vegas. Yeah.

Richard Kerr: Diabetes and high blood pressure, as much as you want. And that's it. We're not giving you anything else.

Ed Pizza: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And I think they're still doing that. I know United has started to phase in some meals on longer flights. And American has started to phase in some buy onboard. But I think Delta is trailing, too, a little bit surprisingly, in what they're offering right now.

Richard Kerr: It's interesting when Delta came out with the new cocktails, what, maybe five or six weeks ago, I flew them ... I don't remember where I was going now. And I had a drink coupon. I was like, Oh, I would love to try one of the new Old Fashions in a can. And the flight attendant was like, we don't have those, caterings a disaster. And my buddy who works here at Delta headquarters is like, yeah, catering with the new stuff caused a hundred flight delays yesterday. I think Delta is reassessing how they're going to do this without shutting Atlanta down, trying to figure catering out again. That's my hypothesis. No idea if that's what's behind the delay in bringing real food back or not.

Ed Pizza: I don't want this to just be a 30 minute bitch fest, but how could it be that hard to ramp up something that the airlines have done for so long?

Richard Kerr: Maybe they've lost their entire workforce. I mean, if there was no airline catering going on, the folks had to go find jobs elsewhere, or they're the beneficiaries of some generous unemployment. So we've seen that in your business during the day, and every fast food restaurant here in Georgia and driving through Alabama last week on our camping trip. Every single dining room is still closed, because they don't have enough workers. So is that the case with the airline catering folks as well? I don't know, but whatever you want to call the huge argument now between, is it labor shortage or is it people don't want to go work hard jobs for minimum wage? Either way, there's not enough people working in these jobs. So maybe that's what's going on with the caterers.

Ed Pizza: Yeah, and the only issue I have there is, let's use that example specifically, then if they don't have enough people to support the catering, why did they start to ramp up again? They should have decades of knowledge of what it takes to ramp up. And so how can it be that bad of a fail? Like, Hey, we're going to launch these new cocktails and then not have them. And there's going to be hundreds of flights that don't get the drinks. You would think that they would know we're going to need whatever, X number of employees per plane to fill these carts. And Hey, we either have that or we don't have that. And have that be the determination of whether you're going to put that stuff back in service.

Richard Kerr: That could be as Corp comms getting ahead, left hand not talking to the right hand, in an organization as huge as Delta. Corps comm sends out emails to all the bloggers and influencers. There's nice boxes with all the new cocktails and everybody starts asking for them. And operations is like, eh, we're still a couple weeks away. On my latest Delta flights, I have not asked mainly because both times have been at 8:00 AM. So I figured I'd better not ask for an Old Fashioned 80. And I go, although I guess I could save it, but you're not supposed to. Anyways, I'll have to check on that.
But broader point, I agree with you. I think it's time that if you're going to be selling these tickets for what they're going for now, airfares up, unless you're an opportunist just looking for cheap fares. I fly between Atlanta and New York on the regular again, and fare are $400 and $500.

Ed Pizza: Yeah.

Richard Kerr: And it's like, okay, I don't even ... this for main cabin discount you fares. I don't know what F is going forward, but if I'm flying a two hour flight and I only have almonds or a four-hour flight like you and that's it, and I'm paying first class, that's not going to cut it right now. There's no COVID reasoning to not be offering full service.

Ed Pizza: And I think there's middle ground. If they don't want to do plated meals, because I know there's been some reluctance on stuff like that. And I can even understand it from a customer perspective. I don't think I'm going to catch COVID because somebody put a piece of chicken on a plate to be clear, but I think it would be really easy to do sandwiches. I know you and I have both flown Lifton's over the years. They can do two meals services in a 45 minute flight.

Richard Kerr: Yeah.

Ed Pizza: So how hard is it to say on these four and five hour flights, we're going to do sandwiches for first-class and even sandwiches for buy onboard. That seems to be fairly easy to do.

Richard Kerr: Spirit has even taken the menus out of the seat back table. So I flew them ... yeah, I don't even remember where I was going, but coming back to Atlanta and I had the gold stash for the first time, which meant you get a free drink and snack on board and I couldn't [crosstalk 00:07:51]find the menu.

Ed Pizza: That was Houston?

Richard Kerr: Yeah, Houston. I couldn't find the menu anywhere to pick like, Hey, what's ... but they started going through the buy on board and I asked the flight attendant. I was like, do you guys have menus? And she was like, Oh, here, it's on my tablet. And I was like, you guys aren't going to sell anything if nobody knows what you're selling. This is weird.

Ed Pizza: Yeah.

Richard Kerr: I don't know why those have ... maybe they disappeared, because they stopped selling this stuff during the peak of COVID. But it's time to put them back. Put the menu back in the seat pocket if you want make money.

Ed Pizza: Yeah. And I mean, look, I don't know about Spirit, because I don't fly them enough to think about the menu in the seat back pocket. But I know United obviously used to have those for their by onboard stuff. And I flew United back just a couple of days ago and I flew ... it was Vegas to Dallas. It was in coach, so I'll call it four hours.

Richard Kerr: You fly coach? Really?

Ed Pizza: I know.

Richard Kerr: That's weird, man. I didn't know that.

Ed Pizza: I know. It happens sometimes, even to the best of us. And so I tried to take a nap at the beginning of the flight, which is my normal routine. And so when I woke up later, she was ... well, actually it's funny. She dropped a bottle of water on my head while I was sleeping, because I had to life-like coach, and I guess she didn't realize where my head was.

Richard Kerr: Life-like coach.

Ed Pizza: But there was a fairly low yield of light, but they gave me you a little plastic bag. It's a bottle of water, a stroopwafel and a bag of pretzels. And so they had the carts come out and this was probably two and a half, three hours in the flight. That was the second drink service. And so they're coming down the isles. And she's like [inaudible 00:09:22] snacks, snacks. I'm thinking, Oh, that's cool. The snack cart is back. The snack cart is not back. There was a tray of pretzels and a tray of stroopwafels.

Richard Kerr: Yeah.

Ed Pizza: So you could have extra pretzels if you wanted it. And when I said, I asked her what she had and she said, well, I have pretzels and stroopwafels. And I said, well, okay, I'll take a bag of pretzels. It was like, great, here's a bag of pretzels for you. And it was like, okay, well that was not as exciting for me as it was for you, but thank you for the pretzels. I mean, they're moving the cart up and down the aisle, they're handing out food. And so I understand. One of the original concerns was to reduce customer contact and keeping flight attendants and customers safe. But I don't see that there's more contact in them handing me a bag of pretzels or handing me a bag of Pringles. I mean, I guess maybe they have to touch my credit card, but I could probably put the credit card and the reader myself.

Richard Kerr: Yeah. Can we just talk about the plastics situation? Every airline in the United States, we're working to be greener. We're going to lower carbon emissions crosstalk bringing out every single piece of plastic in the world and put it on every flight. There's so much plastic on every single flight and same for hotels. So that's a different discussion. I mean, on full flights now, you're sitting six inches from somebody. So the fact that we can't hand out food for sale or sandwiches is just ridiculous. So I think the airlines are going to continue to save as much money as they can until people get tired of it.
But with as many people flying in flights full as as possible right now, I don't see that happening. But I really wish they would either just say, Hey, we're saving money and this is going to be the new expectation, or bring the service back, but don't leave us in flux. And if I was in your situation, flying first class for four hours and there was just almonds, I'd be like, okay, it's not going to cut it.

Ed Pizza: No. And I mean, look, I think that that situation is going going to ... well, I think the conditions where passengers are going to be looking for food on airplanes is going to persist for longer than we like, because of the condition of the terminals. And I think we talked about it briefly, but I think it's important for folks who are thinking about traveling on that first trip right now to know that they really shouldn't rely on finding food in the terminal. For my early morning flight, I started getting up a half an hour early, so I can either make breakfast at home or grab breakfast on the way to the airport, because I've seen all the options are open at my home airport. And even bouncing around at other airports. You mentioned the Atlanta to Las Vegas flight. Atlanta's a big airport and there's a lot of stuff open there, but there's more passengers than there are restaurants open by far.

Richard Kerr: It's full. The line for every restaurant's deep.

Ed Pizza: Oh, and as you say, from a staffing standpoint, for folks that don't know Atlanta, you've got a whole bunch of concourses that are all in a row, like rungs on a ladder. And so I had to go out of the F, as in Fox Concourse, and I went to the main entrance to the airport. And I started popping my head up the escalators and various concourses looking at the lines. And like, okay, well the line Einstein is too long. I'll skip past that and blah, blah, blah. And then finally I get to the last concourse, and the only thing there is really McDonald's. They got a coffee shop or something like that. Like, all right, well, I guess I'll get in the line for McDonald's. I mean, it had to be 40 or 50 people deep. And to your point about staffing, there were two employees working. There was one employee in the kitchen, I could see. And then there was one person working cash register. And it became obvious to me that it was going to be an hour. And so I just went and got hummus for breakfast, because it was either hummus or Pop-Tarts at the the Hudson News.

Richard Kerr: Yep. Yeah. It's rough. I'm empathetic to all the people out there. I got to go back to the experience last week and driving through Alabama with the RV. We pull off somewhere around Montgomery. One of the kids had to go to the bathroom, so we stop at Burger King. It's got a big enough parking lot for me to pull through. Go up, the door locks, dining room closed, no public bathrooms. So it was like, okay. And then there's actually another construction worker in the parking lot that just parked his truck. And he was like, are they closed, too? And we were like, yeah, our daughter's got to go to the bathroom. And he was like, I do, too, and this is the fourth restaurant I've tried. And everybody's, drive-through only. So like, all right, we get in RV and go, which is not something we do on the road.
But it's a problem when you need food and it's drive-through only, because the RV doesn't go through the drive-through. So I was like, well, I can walk through the drive-through. And about the time I was just going to walk through the drive through, five other cars got in line. And I was like, Nope, nevermind. And then we pull off two more exits and the same thing. Every drive through line is 20 cars deep. The dining rooms are closed and I'm like, how do I get food?

Ed Pizza: Yeah.

Richard Kerr: What do we have to do? And finally we get into the middle of nowhere, Evergreen, Alabama. Interesting fact, Ed, the Yeti capital of Alabama is a city called Evergreen, Alabama. Apparently they see the Yeti. They got a big statue there, when you get off the interstate. I love random Americana, but the McDonald's dining room was open when we got there. I walked in and grabbed the food and as I was walking out, the lady locked the door behind me and put a sign up that said, drive through only. I was like sweet. But it's like, wow, this is ... I don't even know what you do about that. And they all have signs out in front that say hiring now, we'll interview you on the spot. When you walk in Lowe's now, if you want a job, we'll interview you now, and either offer you a job or say no. So is that my end on the lack of services going on behind the airlines? Is it just cost savings? I don't know. I really wish I knew.

Ed Pizza: Well, yeah. And I think some of the staffing stuff, but it obviously impacts hotels as well. But I think, to your point about my recent stay, I think ... Look, I guess first and foremost, I think we're past the point where daily housekeeping should be the norm again. But I understand that that decision's not up to me. So I feel like at a bare minimum, if a hotel's not going to provide daily housekeeping at this point of the pandemic, where we've essentially lifted mask mandates pretty much everywhere over the past week, and this new climate that we're in, if you're not going to offer daily housekeeping, I think that has to be disclosed in the reservation process. I think you have to know that you're missing a fundamental piece of what you would normally be paying for.

Richard Kerr: Yeah. I call every hotel now before I go to tell like, Hey, is your lounge open? What are you doing for elite breakfast in a Hyatt Place? When you made that Hyatt Place reservation crosstalk

Ed Pizza: You funny guy.

Richard Kerr: I mean at full service hotel, but was there a big morning Hyatt Place making this reservation? We are not serving breakfast at all. I.e, the reason we as a family say at a Hyatt Place is to get breakfast? Was that anywhere in your reservation?

Ed Pizza: Negative, no. There is a note on this hotel's site that says limited, the grab and go breakfast only. Now, there may have been parameters on that grab and go breakfast. I feel like I was down there at a time when grab and go breakfast should have already been set up. And maybe there was a staffing issue or something of that nature, but it's not like I'm not going to spend a bunch of time researching that. It wasn't discussed at check-in, anything like that. And I will say I have had other stays during the pandemic where they did coach me through what it was going to be like.
I remember when I went and bought my RV. On the way back, I stopped at a Hampton or something like that. And she told me in the morning, okay, in the morning when you come down, you'll have a choice of two different bags. We'll have the bags here. This is how you do it. And so they walked me through what the process was going to be like. Okay, well, that's ... at least I'm an informed customer now. And I definitely didn't have that. And I didn't think I was going to get housekeeping. And to be clear, it's just me. They put three towels in the room. Did I really need daily housekeeping? I didn't need it. I'm not as big a slob as you. I mean, I feel like my rate was probably close to $200 bucks a night, $175 or something like that. It's like, wow. I mean, these are not $35 room rates anymore.
In the peak of the pandemic, when hotel prices were super cheap. And I understand they lost a lot of money during that time period. But at this point now, it's like, look, I mean, you're charging me pre-pandemic pricing. I think we need to get a little bit close to pre-pandemic levels of service.

Richard Kerr: Yeah, I would agree, or at least make it painfully obvious and clear during the booking process. Hey, we're not offering the product that this brand is known for. I want to make it completely clear. Everything we've all been through, I'm very empathetic with what the hotels and hotel staff went through last year, but this is not last year anymore. We're halfway through 2021. And I think you need to offer what your product used to stand for, if you're going to be charging those prices, or at least disclose these kinds of things. And definitely do not tell me at check-in, because of COVID, we're not offering daily housekeeping. And then show me the happy hour cocktail menu for your bar, and encourage everybody to come down to the bar together. This happened to me twice. And I'm like, okay, that's the hypocrisy that irritates me more than if they just said, Hey, we're not doing it. Here's $20 to the market credit for not having daily housekeeping. Go get yourself a couple beers and a light snack or something. And I'd be like, all right, cool. But if it's like, because of COVID, we're not doing ... it's like, stop, get out of here with it that nonsense.

Ed Pizza: Yeah. I mean the level of theater is a little bit disappointing and frustrating.

Richard Kerr: Safety theater.

Ed Pizza: Yes, right, exactly. Yeah. I mean, look at the end of the day, I think I'm right there with you. I know that the hotel industry has been through a tremendous amount of pain. I'd say probably even more so than the airline industry, because they didn't get the bailouts that the airline industry did. And so I'm very empathetic to ... especially the guy who worked in the hotel industry for a long time. And I've had a mixed bag. I've had, I don't know, six or seven hotel stays across the few weeks I've been back traveling. And I've seen everything, run the full gamut of what folks are providing. And I just feel like the disclosure on what's being provided is so weak right now for customers. And it's like, look, if you want us to buy in, if you want us to be empathetic to what's going on and you want us to be with you through whatever this is, you got to tell us what's going on.

Richard Kerr: Everybody knows you and I are both huge height fans, High Regency, Grand Cypress in Orlando, wonderful family spot to go. Whether you're Disney, you don't Disney, you can stay there and have a great time to do other stuff in Orlando. The signage for their Regency Club is completely gone throughout the entire hotel.

Ed Pizza: Right.

Richard Kerr: Number one, it was an outdoor club, so plenty of space.

Ed Pizza: And a good club, too.

Richard Kerr: And a good club. I'm afraid it's gone. I'm afraid Regency Clubs in the U.S. are gone for good at a lot of places. Once they probably sat down and said, wow, look at all this money we're saving not doing this, and our rates are still up from doing this, then, all right, fine, it's gone. My problem was is they didn't tell you that during the welcome email, they didn't tell you anything. I wrote back like I do now for every hotel. Hey, can you tell me what you're doing for breakfast? Are you doing housekeeping? Do I have to tell your housekeeping the day before? Is your club open? When I say like, Hey, the club is closed. Okay.
For me, with two little kids, the club at a place like the Regency Grand Cypress is a place to go and get four bottles of water and save myself $12, when the kids are thirsty or grab a quick snack. It's a very convenient thing for a traveling family to have at a property like that. So I asked the whatever guest experience manager, somebody wrote me. I said, Hey, can we do a small credit at the grab and go market down there since the club is closed? She was like, no, sorry. We're not offering globalists anything in consideration. And I'm like crosstalk you just diminished your entire stay.
I mean, that's like a huge value add. And a huge reason that I keep globalist status is to get that lounge access when traveling as a family. My wife is a coffee nut, getting a cup of coffee at a fancy machine. All this stuff adds up to making a great stay. And to just not say anything about it, signage permanently gone, not offer anything, this big part of this stay is now gone. And we're just not going to say anything about it. I got a problem with that, all in the name of COVID still.

Ed Pizza: Well, and we're talking about differentiating. I mean, there's plenty of limited service Hyatt properties in that market that costs less points, fewer points per night. And so specifically when we talk about Grand Cyprus, I'll take it a step further than the things that you noted. They also had really good hot options for breakfast for the kids. They had a separate kids room with a TV where they could watch Disney cartoons. They had an outdoor patio area where you could watch the fireworks at night. They did dessert items.

Richard Kerr: Those are great.

Ed Pizza: Yeah. So, that's a significant value add to me staying at that property. And so if that's gone, it definitely changes the value prop for it. And I know this isn't 100% on topic, but it's close enough, and you and I were just talking about the other day that I can't help but give you just a couple of minutes to turn beet red thinking about this again. But share with the listeners your favorite Marriott property in Orlando. I don't think this is COVID related, but share with them what the current situation is at your favorite Marriott property in Orlando.

Richard Kerr: Yeah. And we talk about the Marriott stay at LaGuardia the other day. So Marriott points to me. I have a big problem with Marriott, a couple of things. Even if you have platinum status or higher, you still got to pay resort fees, still got to pay parking when you use points. So a "free award stay" can easily cost you in a destination like Orlando, 60, 70, 80 bucks a night. And that's for a basic group, and that stinks. So where I do redeem points for great value is Marriott's Harbor Lake vacation club in Orlando. It has a waterpark, putt-putt, a huge activity center, a pirate themed ship for the kids that just absolutely go nuts over. And you get a two bedroom condo with full kitchens. So you can go to the grocery store, make your own meals. And we've stayed there, I don't know, four times now.
And it's just a wonderful place, no resort fee, no parking, tremendous use of Marriott points. Love it. My wife, who has never wanted to turn over to me and say, Hey, will you look at using points at hotel X? You did that to me two nights ago on the camping trip. And I was like, say what? I'm like, Okay, I'll hop on it right now. So I look at it and so many people in my family have seen this go there that my younger brother is taking his family there at the end of June. And it was like, Hey, go look and see if there's availability when Andrew and family are down there. I go and the entire calendar is nothing. Not a single day in June has points availability. And I was like, okay, well, maybe it's because I have a three night stay and there's not three consecutive nights.
So I drop it down to one night. And there's not single night in June that is available for points booking. July, none, August, none, September, none. Not nice single date in the rest of the booking calendar is available for points at the Harbor Lake Vacation Club in Orlando. And nightly rates for a base room are $140 to $150 several nights throughout the summer. So they've just removed points redemption as a possibility entirely. And I don't know why. So the biggest problem with Marriott is when it's time to use points or certificates, I have no faith that I will be able to do what I should be able to do with the program. And the good values, as I look, are favorite place, the only place that redeem points the last two years is gone. You can't even do it. What? Why?

Ed Pizza: I'm sure it's just an IT issue. I'm sure.

Richard Kerr: Yeah, I'm sure. I don't even know. It's just so irritating.

Ed Pizza: And we've seen a lot of that. We've seen some Marriott hotels that are now charging fees to use points. Some hotels ...

Richard Kerr: It's just very apparent, Marriott corporate has no quality control over health programs, or implementing the Bonvoy program. And that programs fear no repercussions from corporate whatsoever. And it's just not anything I can get behind. I try and avoid Marriott everywhere. I can. I have seven free night service. I still have an old free week cert. I have 600,000 points. I just want to have nothing to do with them, because I can't redeem them. Go to redeem 35 caser at the loft. LaGuardia is 40,000 points a night. It's like, are you kidding me? I quit. Like, God, make it stop.

Ed Pizza: Glutton for punishment, man. You still haven't canceled the credit card yet, have you?

Richard Kerr: Do I have any bought inaudible Oh, I held him for the longest time with Amex. Not a dollar went on them because until they drop my name from the DOD roster, there was no annual fee for military reservists. So I think the annual fees might hit any month now. I have to look at my spreadsheet, and I just 35 casers are just worthless. There's no way I'm going to redeem them before, unless I'm driving somewhere in need of Fairfield Inn and suites in Amarillo, Texas. I'll just redeem it there. Otherwise, no.

Ed Pizza: And the chances that that room is going to be a lot more than what the annual fee is for the card are pretty slow.

Richard Kerr: Yeah. The TownePlace Suite's around the corner from me whenever I get in trouble like this, before I redeem my certs. Yeah. They're not going to fix it. I'm trying to spin a few people up to inquire what's going on, but it's just another day at Bonvoy.

Ed Pizza: Well, I know you got a bunch on your schedule. I appreciate you jumping on and talking about this. I don't think it's getting better soon, but I am going to be eager to continue to watch. Until then, tell folks where they can find you when you're not hopping on the podcast complaining with me.

Richard Kerr: Yeah. And I just want to be clear. If this was adequately disclosed throughout the booking process and properties can 100% go in and do that, then I am an informed consumer and I can decide whether to book that hotel or not. And then it's on me. That's all I'm asking for. Don't make me call. Don't make me surprise. Don't say in the name of COVID, it's something that safety theater, just adequately disclose it. Just like resort fees, you adequately disclose it, one price, one good kind of deal, then okay, fine. So I hope that's what airlines and hotels will do moving forward. Until then, Kerr Points, K-E-R-R points on social media. And I'll be here and there, to and fro. A lot of exciting things coming this summer.

Ed Pizza: Yeah, 100%. I think disclosure is the key right now until things get back to normal. These properties have to be telling us what's going on so we know what to expect. And I don't think it would be a horrible thing if the airlines did the same thing. So Kerr Points, thanks a bunch for coming on and giving me the time, man. I always appreciate it.

Richard Kerr: It's always great being the better looking one in the couple. I appreciate it.

Ed Pizza: It's not hard to do with me.
That's a full wrap on this week's episode. You can find links to everything we discussed today in the show notes. A big thanks to all of you for tuning into this week's show. If any of you have questions or suggestions for a future show, you can drop me an or hit me up on social media, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, all@pizzainmotion. And you can find me blogging daily at Until we upload again, we've got miles to go.


Richard Kerr

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